Referring to comment on 20th August and Comment 7. Psychologists are devil workers! I looked up the word sin in the psychology dictionary and you know what, you WON'T find it! You see, the concept of sin is not recognized by modern psychology. How can a psychologist even begin to understand the human nature if the reality of sin is ignored? They can't. The Word of God is absolutely essential to understanding the human psyche, for no other Book on the planet addresses the issue of man being a vile sinner. Psychology is sinful because it attempts to heal men's souls without addressing the issues of sin, repentance, or God. Psychology is of the Devil. The answer is not reformation, rehabilitation, education, nor legislation; but regeneration. Ye must be born-again (John 3:7)! Repent for the time is very near, repent, forgive and return anything that does not belong to you.

COMMENT 1:

Psychologists are not Pastors, but they do have their place in practice. They have helped many sort through very difficult situations. Sometimes it just takes someone to talk to, to have them have you see things in a different light. Psychologists are specially trained how to work with the mind of the individual, perhaps how to get that person to open up, to see that that soul still has a purpose in life. There are many Christian psychologists who guides one mind based on biblical scripture, who guide them to turn to God. So you can't say that all psychology is evil. Evil can exist in any occupation. Our elders should be as psychologists, to hear the hurt of its sheep, to heal, to nurture, to give biblical advise. But they do the opposite, they cause anguish in the souls by being partial, by doing their will and not Gods' will. That's when those hurt, confused souls seek outside help and seek a professional psychologist. Elders have a huge responsibility and will answer greatly, but it seems they just don't have the fear of God in them.

COMMENT 2:

King David was depressed. God said he was a man after His own heart. It's not psychology that's from the Devil.. Yep, it sure hits home the views of the Nazarenes. Why does it offend you? Because God can break people free from bondage? Perhaps you who states it’s from the Devil should enlighten us to what in the Word of God speaks against healing emotionally? If you have cancer you seek treatment, correct? So the same with a spiritual cancer and mental abuse... One seeks to understand the wrong mentality and to not repeat those behaviours and to make others accountable for their abuse. Why don't all those in church on medication for psychological problems interject and protest as what do you think has made them that way? You are perhaps upset that the true nature of the church is exposed? Ever wonder why people just steer clear? Why you all but have to be born into the Nazarenes and then the crazy amount of people related to each other because they are running out of people to partner with. Mate, you best believe that there is abuse in the church! With knowledge of many and the behaviours they engage in within/without church it is a joke that you can feel above reproach. So many people in so many different countries that one could lay bare out of sheer frustration to show you what so many are like!! It is sad that this is the way of the church, however God knew it would be like this and perhaps the exposure of darkness and injustice will serve to bring people to a true understanding of grace as they come away from legalism. You can live life with love, joy and realness that God is satisfied with just by knowing that Jesus died for you, the sinner. With an honest heart you can share your faith with friends, neighbours, your children and your community without pretence and judgement and without the pursuit of sin. It appears that one of the biggest stumbling blocks in evangelism is the belief that one is too pure to interact with his worldly counterparts. That sin is real, the human conditional and that the medicine is Jesus and the outcome, life everlasting. With heartfelt hope that God’s grace envelopes those who have hurts from their experiences.

COMMENT 3:

Responding to Comment No.1 on 22 Aug 2013: "Elders have a huge responsibility and will answer greatly, but it seems they just don't have the fear of God in them." Very, very true, there is definitely a major lack of the fear of God. I totally agree! Could this be the whole problem? Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, "FEAR GOD", and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

COMMENT 4:

l wonder whether we could have some doctrinal debates as it could be quite enlightening for our Nazarene world, although for some it may be quite threatening especially if the word of God isn't the final authority for them but rather whatever their church/elder says..

COMMENT 5:

Comment 1 on the psychologists is correct and I agree. If people, whether members of the church or non-members could get the proper help and care and guidance and healing they need from the Elders of the church, "maybe" there would be no need to go to psychologist for help for many people. I heard one Elder say that we don't need psychologists, as we have the Bible. True, all answers are in the Bible for our life, but sometimes we need real people to talk to. That is our mission in life as well... to comfort people, to uplift them, to encourage them, and to help them in any way we can. This means physically, mentally and spiritually. Obviously not many Elders have had mentally ill family members or friends, or they would look at it a different way.

I agree that not all psychologist can help in the area of "church", as our "church" and "our belief" is very complex. If you try to explain your problems within the church or your spiritual problems to a psychologist, they will not understand. There is really no point to talk to them about your faith, church, etc. They do not understand that at all. But to give other advice, psychologist and psychiatrists do have their place, not only to help the sick person themselves, but also help the family to live and cope with their loved ones.

I just think it is VERY sad indeed, that we cannot go to the Elders for counselling. If we do, we are told it's our fault, we are told we have some sin in our lives, we are told everything negative, and one comes away worse off instead of being encouraged. That my friends, is the REAL sin... that members and non members alike, cannot get good counselling in the church, no matter where the Elders live. This is a problem all over the world in our churches.

What about all those members in our churches around the world who are on medication from psychologists and psychiatrists? Are they to give up their medication and go to the leaders of the church for help? Would they get it? Sadly, no. I would venture to say, that those people would not even get a prayer said for them. Also, sadly but true, I have known quite a few members who needed to go on medication for their nerves BECAUSE of the church problems and the leaders, and the church and leaders "caused" their problems, and they did not get any help in the church, and had to succumb to other means. And what about those who have a real physical problem with their nerves, or a real "mental" problem? Do they go to the church for help? No. They need medication, and you can only get that from psychologists and psychiatrists, just like you can only get medication from a medical doctor for your physical problems.

COMMENT 6:

As with many psychologists today, Freud, the father of modern psychology, committed suicide in 1939. He was 83 years old when he asked his doctor to end his life, and died of a physician-assisted morphine overdose in London on September 23, 1939. Of course, Sigmund Freud is a big hit today with homosexuals. "...he accepted the idea that all human beings come into the world as potential bisexuals."
Are you starting to see what is deathly wrong with psychology? How could modern psychology, that is largely based upon the work of an avowed atheist, even begin to understand the concept of sin? It cannot! Sin is completely ignored by the occult, New Age, Wicca, psychology, psychiatry, et cetera.
Proverbs 19:21, "There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand."
Modern psychology refuses to recognize drunkenness as sin; but rather, they call it a "chemical dependency." Homosexuality is a morally reprehensible sin in the Word of God; but modern psychologists call it an "alternative lifestyle." A rebellious wife may be diagnosed with hormonal imbalance, regressive anger, post-traumatic stress, clinical depression, or even a chemical-imbalance-of-the-brain; BUT no psychologist would dare cut to the chase of the matter - REBELLION IS AS THE SIN OF WITCHCRAFT! (1st Samuel 15:23).
Church is royally messed up today because people REFUSE to repent of sin. The greatest sin of all is unbelief, for it is the only sin which can keep a person out of Heaven (John 3:36). There can be no healing of the mind or soul apart from making peace with God.
Sigmund Freud was strongly influenced by Charles Darwin. "...he originally drew inspiration from the work of Charles Darwin which explained behaviour in evolutionary terms."
Although Darwin attended church in the earlier days of his life, and then quit, it is unmistakably clear that he had churchianity without Christianity. Charles Darwin was a Christ-rejecting, Bible-denier, who stated that he could "...hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true; for if so the plain language of the text seems to show that the men who do not believe, and this would include my Father, Brother and almost all my best friends, will be everlastingly punished. And this is a damnable doctrine."
From it's roots, modern psychology has it's origins in atheism and the unproven theories of evolution. Psychology is effectively synonymous with Modernism, worldliness, Humanism, Evolution, and the occult.
There is nothing correct about modern psychology. Psychology is poisonous from it's roots, which is atheism. Freud based his beliefs largely upon Darwin's theoretical evolutionary process of man's development. As a result, Freud's work is flawed, having left out God. How can a man study the human soul without including the Creator of the soul? (John 1:10).
Today we have false Christians in our Church and some that have left are into psychology.
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
2 Timothy 3:5.Having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.
Titus 1:16. They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.
Comment 2 said King David was depressed, he turned to God when he was sad. David acknowledged his transgressions as sins, and sought forgiveness from God, asking God to cleanse him from all sin.
David desired to be clean within, to be righteous in the eye's of God. Psalm 119:11, "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee."

COMMENT 7:

I agree with comment 6 Any attempt to better or improve humanity by bypassing the Gospel is humanism. If it's a spiritual concept, then it's religious humanism. Biblical Christianity means a new birth by obeying the Gospel. We obey the good news (the Gospel) by believing on Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God Who died, was buried and rose from the dead three days later. That's it. Acts 16:30-31 says the way to be saved is to BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST!!! It's that simple. But don't ADD anything or else it's false plan of salvation like Roman Catholicism (they add keeping the seven sacraments).

Beware. Colossians 2:8 says to beware (be on guard, look) against worldly philosophies and manmade traditions that spoil (sinfully lead men astray) from Jesus Christ.

COMMENT 8:

The Bible warned us that false teachers would creep into our churches UNAWARES (Jude 1:4). Satan is doing this by convincing churches that they need Christian leaders who have degrees in secular psychology. No you don't! All across America, churches are calling pastors to their pulpits who have degrees in modern heathen psychology. This is evil. No wonder today's churches are in such a mess. Modern psychology is of the Devil, ignoring the reality of sin (a term they don't even recognize).

COMMENT 9:

I don't think we should get into a big discussion on Psychology, as it will bring about much division and arguments. We should probably leave that subject, as this website is not for the purpose of discussing psychology. However, I just wanted to reply to the person who made comment 6. It is obvious that there are 2 things you have never tried in the last several years. First, it is obvious that you have not gone to any psychologist in the past several years, and secondly, it is obvious that you have not sought out help or counselling from the leaders of the church in the past several years for any personal problems. If you have done so, you would know exactly what these people are talking about with the above comments.

You are talking about Freud, and the "concept" behind psychology, theories and thinking. And even though what you say about Freud and the concept of psychologist may be true, people here are not talking about that. People here are talking about getting help and counselling from someone who will just listen to them and not condemn them because they have problems. People here are talking about being desperate with situations and they get no help from the church leaders. People are reaching out just to talk to others, because they cannot get help elsewhere, and that does NOT mean they believe in the concept of psychology. It also is talking about people with real physical nerve problems or real mental problems that need a doctor, but medical doctors cannot help. And just like anything else, sometimes you have to be referred to a "specialist" to get certain medication which a normal medical doctor cannot give. Again, this does not mean if a person goes to a psychologist or psychiatrist to get medication, that they believe in the theories behind Freud or give up their faith in God or how they believe. That is absurd to say. These are 2 different things.

There was a comment above in comment 5, that psychologist will not understand anything about church, religion and faith, and I agree with that. So if you want help from those problems, you will not get it from them. Sadly, you won't get it from the church either. However, there are other reasons involved to go to a psychologist than just a rebellious wife or homosexuality. It sounds like you are implying that if a person has sin, they are just going to a psychologist to put a "bandaid" on it, instead of repenting from the sin. And I agree, that is not to be done. However, let's be fair and honest when we talk about what psychologist stand for in this sense, and let's realize the big picture that there is WICKEDNESS IN HIGH PLACES EVERYWHERE. The government itself condones gay marriage, women's rights, and other sinful acts that we as Christians do not believe in. Not just psychologists. We cannot get away from the sin of this world, because the leaders in our government are supporting such issues. Keep your perspective right. If that's the case, we won't be able to send our children to schools in the future, as they too will have the same mind of psychologists. Medical doctors will have the same view as well, thus we cannot go to medical doctors anymore. It is not just a psychologist that can turn things around regarding sin, it is the whole world, government, every entity around us that will become willing to cover up sin and make it all OKAY. Even medical doctors can tell you the same things psychologists can tell you regarding the issues you mentioned above. We as Christians must know how to discern in every situation in this sinful world, whether it is my medical doctor telling me something, a psychologist, the teacher, my co worker, my neighbour, whoever. ALL these people can tell us the same thing a psychologist can tell us about sin, about gay marriage, rebellious wives, anger issues in husbands, etc. They can all try to put a "bandaid" on it instead of deal with the real problem. The key is discernment. We must need to know what we can pick up from these people as "good advice" and what to leave behind. We must sift the good from the bad. Let's not confuse sin from the Bible, and help from doctors. I don't think anyone on this discussion who has made a comment would even think that going to a doctor or a psychologist is a substitute for repenting from sin or covering up sin.

I don't want to ponder on this thought anymore, but unless you yourself have visited a psychologist in the past several years to know exactly what is going on and how they talk, then it may be best you don't judge all psychologist in the same boat. I myself have heard several psychologists and psychiatrists talk, and none of them have tried to say to the patient anything what you mentioned above. None of that even came into the conversation. Again I say, we are not talking about the "concept" of psychology here, we are talking about individual people who can possibly help someone out. Also, if you have not tried to counsel with the leaders of the church in the last several years for any of your personal or private matters, there again, please watch what you say. For those who have tried, and have failed and had no help but more burden put upon them, it is hurtful to them and offensive to them. There is nothing more disheartening, than to go to a church leader for help, and hope he will listen to you and understand you and guide you and help you, without condemning you that you have sinned and you are wrong, and you come away more burdened and hurt than you were before. It is a shame as well as a discouragement and disappointment. So, if you have not been in that situation, best not to say anything. I don't want to comment any more about psychology, and I will not comment anymore, and I feel this website should shut the book on this subject, please. I don't think the website was for this purpose. I think we all know that no doctor or psychologist or psychiatrist is a substitute for repenting of sin, and nobody even said that on here.

COMMENT 10:

It amazes me to see how many ignorant and close minded people there are to think that Christians are "exempt" from having mental problems. Christians can and will have mental problems, just like Christians can and do have cancers, heart problems, and any other diseases. If you look up the WIDE spectrum of mental disease, it ranges through a host of things, from mild depression, bipolar, mood swings, as well as anger attacks, violence, control freaks, OCD, and the like. You don't have to be a "mental" case locked up not knowing what you are doing to have a mental problem. Years ago, the case was that the word "mental" meant just that. A person was not normal and locked up and did all kinds of strange things. Although it can still happen today, the things that come under the "mental" heading is much widely spread. If there is any Christian person that has a very bad anger problem, they consider that to be a "mental" problem these days. If you have any of things listed under mental disorders, you are considered to have mental problems. But let's not be fooled. Just because a person is a Christian, that does not change their personality, nor does it change physical problems. Yes, we should all listen to the Holy Spirit to control us, and I am not justifying not repenting of sin and we must live a Holy life. But let's be honest. I can tell you, I have seen QUITE A FEW mental Christians in our church. If a husband abuses his wife and is a control freak, and has anger issues, and abuses her and the children, he is considered having mental issues, not just sin. The problem is, that most Christians do not get help. They say, oh well, that's just the way he is, that's his personality, that's his weakness. They do not consider it sin and do not admonish for those things. Well then, Christians do get by with a lot of sin, if we just consider it to be the personality of a person or his weakness. Sin must be dealt with and repented from, yes. But Christians are subjected to mental problems just like they are to physical problems. We are human in the flesh, and can be subjected to mental disorders as well as physical disorders. Being a Christian does not make anyone exempt from mental disorders.

COMMENT 11:

There is one brother in the Ohio area in USA that is a psychologist. I have known this brother for many years. I can say this brother is a strong, faithful believer in the Lord. His life and works reflect that he is a faithful Christian brother. However, he is a psychologist. So what would you say about that, you who write that psychology is evil? I am SURE that this brother does NOT condone homosexuality or rebellious women or anything contrary to the word of God. If you sat down and talked with him, you would see that none of his work is following after Freud, and none of his work is supporting these issues, nor is against the word of God. It would be good if this brother would make a comment on here.

COMMENT 12:

I heard many years ago that Naturopaths and Homeopaths were evil and from the Devil. I read that those natural things they give to people are harmful, as they work on your mind as well as your body. So should we say then that all these natural practitioners are evil? I read many years ago, that the concept behind this natural healing is like a "witch doctor". So if psychologist are evil, then naturopaths and homeopaths are evil too, as they are dealing with something that was derived from witch doctors many years ago. Now, listen how ridiculous that sounds. True, I read article on these things, but I have never found any naturopath or homeopath to do rituals from witch doctors, or go against God's word. So even though the concept behind their practice is thought to be evil because it comes from witch doctors, this does not mean they practice it. So even though the concept behind psychology is thought to be evil, this does not mean all psychologist today practice that either.

COMMENT 13:

Let's keep in mind that Colossians 2:8 is talking about philosophies of religion and customs and traditions and laws that are after this world and not after Christ, and not necessarily talking only about psychologists. The Bible here talks about philosophy that is vain and deceitful, which can come through other religions and other beliefs and other means. We have received Jesus Christ and his doctrine, and are not to be swayed or deceived by ANY other philosophies. So don't think that just because you don't go to a psychologist, this verse is not for you. This verse talks of ANYTHING from ANY SOURCE,that would bring new or other doctrines and beliefs contrary to Jesus Christ and the Bible. You certainly don't need to go to a psychologist to hear enticing and beguiling words to try to persuade you to change your faith in Jesus Christ or God's word. That is all around us.

COMMENT 14:

To Comment 11, that brother should then go and share his psychology ideas to Columbia Station, Ohio; they need serious help.

COMMENT 15:

Well all I can say is I wish you all had the same passion to write about what the Elders are doing that is sinful rather than debating psychology.

These 14 comments on psychology tells me that people are reading this site, but no one wants to delve into what is happening in Mexico, Jim Igic telling a brother who fell into sin... YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF, IN FRONT OF THE CHURCH? Mark Igic with illegals, Paul Pentsa holding baptisms, going to court and so on... where is the true outrage people? Let's stay on topic and leave the psychologists alone or we will all end up on there couches one day.
 
COMMENT 16:

COLOMBIA STATION CHURCH: Comment 14: From my understanding Colombia Station in Cleveland does not need a psychologist. They had an elder there named Dave Nickolson. Maybe Dave should tell this site how he helped split that church up? Many had to leave and now the very few brothers left have all been put in the ministry because the elder allowed them to vote by standing up instead of secret ballots. That is what is wrong with the Nazarean faith. The elders, the elders and the elders. Writer 14, are you one of the many forced to flee that church? If you don't want to say can you at least add or correct my comment if not some of it is incorrect. Any one else feel free to shed some light for the truth to come out.



 


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